Serendipity

[Rhindeer]

I like that.

With the provinces, we've been focusing a lot on the nobility lately--and of course they have it good. But in a society ruled by social classes and monarchies, well...this ain't democracy and I always felt there would be a big divide between the classes, because there really was no middle class in this time period. You were either rich or you were poor. You weren't always dirt poor, you could be comfortable, but you were still poor. And I so like grit and realism in my settings, even in one that's big on magic and fae and light and fluff. xD

Serendipity is definitely the most well off nation, but some darkness to balance it out would be nice, some inner conflict--even if it's just social conflict.

And I do think it'd make sense if magic can't fix EVERYTHING. xD I like it playing a huge role in the society and I like the idea of it being used to do things like, y'know, give glitzy costumes that wouldn't be possible with the technology of the time. Some drawbacks in that because they're so reliant upon it they suffer when it comes to mundane tasks balances it out, I think.

But I'm also open to more ideas and am liking hearing what everyone's coming up with. :3

But no inner conflict at ALL and all peace and hippies and sunshine makes for a boring setting overall. xD Serendipity is awesome, but it needs some social issues.

[Anonymous]

See, I think Adela might be better suited to that. Serendipity was always about the fluff and lighter side, described as an ecclectic, colorful nation of magic, mages and free-thinkers. It just doesn't seem right to have it suddenly go darker and grittier. I like the idea of there being some conflict and what not added, but all the talk of grit and darkness and cruelty just seems off.

[Anonymous]

And that doesn't make the upper class evil bad people or anything. These things were often just seen as how things worked and people accepted that. There can be hardships for people and the upperclass gets to live a life of luxury.

I don't think Serendipity needs to lose it's bright, fae feel at all. But I would like to see some darkness thrown in. That not everyone is happy and well off. I think that in a country with something as obvious as magic to devide people, there could easily be a harsh line drawn between the classes.

And I still vote that magic can do the bid, bold, outrageous stuff, but the country suffers with the little day to day things as a balancer.

[Anonymous]

See, I think Adela might be better suited to that. Serendipity was always about the fluff and lighter side, described as an ecclectic, colorful nation of magic, mages and free-thinkers. It just doesn't seem right to have it suddenly go darker and grittier. I like the idea of there being some conflict and what not added, but all the talk of grit and darkness and cruelty just seems off.

I totally disagree. I think every nation needs to have shades of gray. It doesn't need to not be a an ecclectic, colorful nation of magic, mages and free-thinkers. It can still have that while having grit to it.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. There doesn't need to be Light vs Dark. Every place should have a mixture of both

[Anonymous]

That definitely sounds a lot better than what I was thinking. And yes, that magic sounds better! With it being able to do this grandiose stuff, but then the little stuff not so much.Though, you'd lose some uniqueness if every place was shades of grey.

[Anonymous]

Gray has many, many shades. And name any place EVER that lacked a darker side to it? Just because you added a darker, gritter aspect to the nation doesn't mean it can't still be a good place

[Rhindeer]

Well...while I love Serendipity, I have to admit that its PEACE AND SUNSHINE AND HIPPIES AND LOVE aspect has...always kinda driven me nuts. xD It's just not realistic. It can still be those things, yes, but NO nation is perfect or 100% peaceful. Because they're run by people, and people are inherently selfish and prone to doing bad things.

The place needs SOME sort of social conflict. : Right now it's a little too sugary and that...is pretty boring. xD Where is the bloody CONFLICT?

It's not about good or evil, black or white, either. Serendipity will always be an eclectic nation of free-thinkers. But there are shades of gray and I'd like to see that.

[Anonymous]

It's not like Serendipity will lose any of it's bright, free thinking feel. It just wouldn't be happy sunshine land everywhere. It's not like a place becomes evil and bad because there is poverty and strife in it.

Fenway wouldn't suddenly be some godawful tyrant because there is some harsh divide in the classes and not everyone lives an easy life. It wont suddenly become a miserable, barren place because the roads suck and most people can't read.

[Goldie]

xD Sorry for putting up that and then actually going to bed.... it's like a missed the storm >_>;;;;;

Anyways!

I definitely agree that magic shouldn't fix everything, and I REALLY like the idea of elaborate ridiculous ball gowns and stuff for parties that disappear with the coming of the morning. I think that's a really amazing idea!

At the same time, however, if the nobility have that kind of magic at their fingertips (and chances are, the best of those kinds of magic users would be in their employ or noble themselves), the nobles I think should be ridiculous all the time. They have the money and power to buy spells that will make them frilly and whimsical and appear to be wearing moonbeams all the time xD

That said, here's where I can see conflict coming in. The nobility versus the middle/lower classes. I mean, if you were a merchant who worked his butt off and then you have to sit by and watch all of the ridiculous clothing and styles that the nobles appear wearing....wouldn't you be a little bit peeved? I know I would! It would be enough to cause dissent because, here you are working your ass off, and some big-shot noble comes up to buy your dyes or fabrics and scoffs at it saying something like, "Hmmm...is there any way you can make it brighter? This really just doesn't capture the essence of a sunrise. I'm looking for something blue..but glowing and with specks of gold! And rays of brilliant light shooting through!"

So, in a sense, the peasants and middle class, while they have magic, they use it practically instead of for these ridiculous creations that nobility sits around all day and dreams up.

And kind of...the richest of the people have the most outrageous attire (not necessarily in structure, but even in color and pattern. It doesn't have to be garish, but definitely something that stands out. Like a fabric that looks like you're wearing a waterfall, but is still elegant.) and it goes down the chain. Middle class aspiring to be more noble would add some pizazz to their tunics, low class would probably think the whole thing absolutely ridiculous and just use regular fabrics and dyes.

Here's also where I thought about the price fact: TIME. Especially for working people, time is so incredibly important. If a huge ballgown of epic proportions takes...let's say...a week to construct magically only for it to dissolve after 12 hours? You can bet your pants that only nobility would do it all the time! Not to mention, unless you have that kind of magic, you have to pay someone to do it...and a weeks worth of difficult magic? expensive!!!!

That's my idea for nobles/peasants clothing stuffs.

now for the military again:

Although I said whimsical for all of it, I still think that there should be a simple elegance for the full-time soldiers in the palace but with something to show off the prestige and...really...the cockiness of the nation. If they don't think they're going to be in battle, they're not going to care how cumbersome the attire might be in a battle. Of course, since Fenway use to be the LKC before becoming king, he would not OK something simply ridiculous because he'd know. But he would also have to listen to his advisers and all of that, so the uniforms will still have that Serendipity flavor. It could be anything from...the tunics are magicked to blend perfectly into the night sky and when the moon shines on it stars appear. lol, good form of camouflage but still shows off the prowess of the nation xD

And also, when I said all matching, I meant more of a...the tunics would be ridiculous, and then everyone would also be issued a standard silver/gray shirt, black pants and knee high boots. Nothing fancy, nothing expensive really, but just uniform.

I'm finished rambling for now xD

[Anonymous]

That much fuss gets old after a while xD And doing it all the time makes it less fun to go all out when a party happens. People like to save their crazy awesome/really nice clothes for those special occasions so that it is special when they get to wear it.

And it's not like they can't wear clothes made in other nations or import fancy fabrics and dyes that will gussy up the simple styles. I think you aren't giving regular clothes enough credit. You don't have to resort to magic to make things elegant and pretty. Even simple patterns can look good when done right. And they can save the really epic, magical, over the top stuff for balls and parties and festivals. So it can be really exciting and breath taking when the nation of mages decides to throw a party.

Also, what middle class? There really isn't a middle class in medieval settings, or really in fantasy settings. There are peasants and their are nobles. Some merchants can become wealthy enough to compare to nobility, but that is rare and they lack any of the power nobles have, and those able to gain enough wealth were rare.

Although I said whimsical for all of it, I still think that there should be a simple elegance for the full-time soldiers in the palace but with something to show off the prestige and...really...the cockiness of the nation. If they don't think they're going to be in battle, they're not going to care how cumbersome the attire might be in a battle. Of course, since Fenway use to be the LKC before becoming king, he would not OK something simply ridiculous because he'd know. But he would also have to listen to his advisers and all of that, so the uniforms will still have that Serendipity flavor. It could be anything from...the tunics are magicked to blend perfectly into the night sky and when the moon shines on it stars appear. lol, good form of camouflage but still shows off the prowess of the nation xD

And also, when I said all matching, I meant more of a...the tunics would be ridiculous, and then everyone would also be issued a standard silver/gray shirt, black pants and knee high boots. Nothing fancy, nothing expensive really, but just uniform.

Personally, I still think you are discrediting how good plan old clothes can look, but it's your vision, not might xD However, I feel like people aren't listening to me.

[center:1cqvz3fc]I AM FINE WITH THERE BEING SOME MAGICAL TOUCHES TO THE UNIFORMS.[/center:1cqvz3fc]

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to add a Serenian feel to the uniforms. I just don't like the idea of using magic to just get to do whatever you want. If Fenway wants to have some tacky, starspangled tunics/tabards that require a lot of magical energy to upkeep, that might be kind of cool. It's very decedent and showy and I think could add to some more of that class divide. That the king is wasting all that magical energy to make uniforms showy and there are beggars starving in the capital.

Because I still would like to see some /bad/ things in Serendipity. It doesn't have to be some dark, evil place, but personally, I want to see the harsher side of it. That not everything is perfect and happy. Why not have the nation of fae decedents living lives of magic and luxury and wealth, but have some of the poorest people. And just because they are poor, it doesn't mean the people have to be miserable and starving to death. But an overall poorer quality of life then the nations that embraced technology more.


Or, just....something. So it's not all light and sunshine and gumdrops in the super happy wonderful elven kingdom

[Goldie]

I know that, Rina!! I was only laying out some random off-the-top-of-my-head ideas. They don't have to necessarily be that, of course, but I know you're ok with magical touches, I wasn't saying any of this in argument to that fact! I'm sorry if it felt that way

[Anonymous]

I'm sure there would be a harsher evil side if people wanted to play it. I'd always assumed there were uneducated people and people that were hungry, it's a country, even the US and Canada have homeless people, Homeless starving children. People don't usually want to play those. It's easy enough to just imply that Serendipity has a sneaky dark little corner and let the players take that and run wild.

I'm not cool with forcing people to play that stuff though. Just say it's there, and viola it's there. o_o You lot are seeming to forget that SotE is mostly player driven? A few people have sneaky serenian nobles and nobody forced them to do that, of course a few of the players quit but someone will eventually pick that up.

As for the clothing - I'm assuming the Serenians aren't retarded and can do quite a few things without magic. Sewing and textile stuff being one of them. Not being able to hold iron is a huge downfall for the more pure blooded Serenians, so there's that but they can just hire immigrants to sew for them or something. I was also under the impression that while they usually had enchanted armor it wasn't completely magiced up but made in a forge like everyone else does it which would make it honest to goodness armor in the end.

And about the middle class, since it was a trading nation I'd assume there was something like the Bourgeoisie? They were 'middle class' and while not in huge amounts they were still there enough to make up a middle class. I don't care if that isn't 'medieval' enough, it makes sense for the setting and there are a lot of cities and I imagine there's a lot of trading going on.

Since I joined I thought of the 'medieval' as a nice guideline, not a set-in-stone setting. This is SotE, not a historical RP. =

[Rhindeer]

So...we just want no conflict in Serendipity whatsoever?

We weren't proposing forcing people play anything. Same way we have nobles but don't force people to play nobles. O_o What I was proposing by conflict was writing it into the setting so that players have something to draw from. Middle class, as far as I was aware, would be the merchants who are lucky enough to make money (and most didn't have that ability to get THAT rich, though they could live comfortable lives, but there weren't enough to actually make a middle class), but otherwise to me a middle class doesn't make much sense.

And so...Serendipity gets all the benefits of everything (from magic to clothes making to social issues), the best of all worlds, but no downsides at all? O_o Is that what we're proposing? Serendipity is going to be a perfect paradise on earth with no bigotry and just happy fairie hippy land where everyone lives great wonderful lives and there are no penalties for this at all?

Because from a player perspective, that's...really, really boring. We've come up with Serendipity's strengths and virtues, and now I want to know what the drawbacks of the setting are--because as you said Draco, no country is perfect. xD

If there is poverty, it should be written into the setting and described. If there is classism, it should be written into the setting and described. No one is FORCING anyone to play ANYTHING they don't want to so I have no idea where that idea came from. xD This is about describing the setting and fleshing it out so that if players do want to play it, they have a reference point and there can be some internal consistency.

I want Serendipity to remain a liberal setting that's whimsical and all that, because hey, that's what it IS. xD But I want to know more about it beyond that.

[Rhindeer]

Also, not knowing how to sew manually does not make one retarded. xD

If you rely upon a sewing machine to make shirts, you're probably not gonna really know how to just use a needle and thread to make that same shirt.

If you're used to just microwaving food, you're probably not gonna know how to cook it from scratch.

If you're used to magicking stuff all the time, you may not know how to do it the old fashioned way.

That goes for Serendipity and clothes and other manual things. x3

These skills are not intuitive! THERE IS A LOT THAT GOES INTO IT.

Clothing making and blacksmithing? Difficult skills to learn manually!

[Goldie]

And also...technically a middle class is just that, a working class. The peasants are usually poor and barely scraping by. The merchants and important tradesmen/women have to work for their riches which, ultimately, makes them middle class.

Annnd....from all of my research into Elizabethan clothing...they did have a middle class, lol. They had the nobility who would go to all of court events and spend time with the king and queen and other nobles. Pretty much as a rule they would have titles. The middle class did their best to dress like the upper, but could not afford the expensive velvets and silks and dyes of the upper class and they really liked wearing these mini-hats ^_^ (This is women, not men in mini hats lol) and the nobility used blacks and deep jewel-tones (Purple was saved for nobility only.)

I'm looking for pictures to demonstrate the differences....but really I do agree with Draco....SotE isn't a historical medieval rp, I thought it was just a way to simply say, "Don't use computers or ipods or cars!"

Also, this is something else...I still completely 100% think that Serenians would use magic like a drug. It's part of their blood, it's a part of them! So using it would be second nature. They wouldn't think, "Well, what happens when this doesn't work?" or "Maybe this time I should do it by hand...." they're just going to do it. Kind of like, we wouldn't think twice about looking something up on the internet. It's part of our culture and it's become a serious crutch. No one lights fires with a stick in their homes anymore as an example. And if given the option, "Here's a lighter. Here's a stick." we're going to pick the lighter every time! It's the same with their magic.

And I do believe that nobles would have the time and the money necessary to care about how ridiculous their clothing looks. Even nowadays, the upper class has this mentality along the lines of, "I won't do this because someone else might have the same thing." or "I'll get this because it's expensive." This has been built and built upon for years. Really, it's just human nature!


and oook, there is a post from Rhi so this basically reiterates some of it xD


And I did mention a way for there to be classism *points above* and also, I think you can BET that part of that would be a touch of racism. The more fey you are the better you are, the more serenian you are.

[Anonymous]

And keep in mind, a lot of these technologies are NOT intuitive. Someone had to figure them out. And that driving need to figure something out and make things easier is lessened when magic can do it for you. Or it's going to be more focused on making magic better at doing those things.

What do you want then Draco? That everything stays the same? That isn't going to be very interesting. Why do you think so many people play wanders and independents?

Because, not to sound like a a bitch, but the nations are boring. There isn't a lot to depth to the nations. They have some cool starts, but they need to get fleshed out more. Why are Pilots so popular? Why are Mordecai the only thing people really seem interested in current Connlaoth? Because there is conflict and depth there. It gives people something to think about.

Serendipity should remain a nation of free thinking liberals. It's a big part of who they are and I don't think anyone here is planning on changing that. But they also can have downsides. Right now, they are this magical paradise with no flaws and can do no wrong.

[Goldie]

Well....don't forget that they were the only nation that has had TWO wars xD And it wasn't that long ago in game either hahahaha, Fenway was LKC during the second and a knight during the first.

So they have a dark history in the past...they almost lost the war, they had to do a lot of revamping in security and all that jazz too, but because it has been years and the dread army doesn't really exist anymore.....settle into a false sense of security.

And also...imagine this: Serendipity, using magic for ridiculous things. Draining their resources on the mundane, spending time making dresses rather than training mage fighters in households to help protect the country. That's a big "uh-oh" and then, taking it a step further, so reliant on magic, what happens if the mordecai show up?

Bam. Trouble!

That's more of a plot thing than anything else, but still makes them weak in that sense. Being too reliant is baaad

[Rhindeer]

Well, I'll concede on the middle class bit. xD But my assumption is they're not a huge population? That the majority of citizens would be peasants (of varying degrees--peasants aren't all living in shacks and dirt, the peasant class makes up farmers and such, too), and the smallest percentage would be made up of middle and upper class?

And I'd love the classism and racism, regarding heritage. Buuut...

That said, here's where I can see conflict coming in. The nobility versus the middle/lower classes. I mean, if you were a merchant who worked his butt off and then you have to sit by and watch all of the ridiculous clothing and styles that the nobles appear wearing....wouldn't you be a little bit peeved? I know I would! It would be enough to cause dissent because, here you are working your ass off, and some big-shot noble comes up to buy your dyes or fabrics and scoffs at it saying something like, "Hmmm...is there any way you can make it brighter? This really just doesn't capture the essence of a sunrise. I'm looking for something blue..but glowing and with specks of gold! And rays of brilliant light shooting through!"

Hmm...it's a good start, and I can see some people getting pissy about that! And in some cases, that may very well be the case! xD

But by classism, I want to dig a little deeper, too. There are these fancy nobles in their AWESOME clothes, but meanwhile peasants barely scraping by and nobles sticking their noses up at them. Which would create bad feelings among the peasants struggling to get food on the table only to see these nobles wasting their money on trivialties. That sorta thing! It's a little more serious than just being jealous of the Jones.

[Anonymous]

And I do believe that nobles would have the time and the money necessary to care about how ridiculous their clothing looks. Even nowadays, the upper class has this mentality along the lines of, "I won't do this because someone else might have the same thing." or "I'll get this because it's expensive." This has been built and built upon for years. Really, it's just human nature!

Who said they can't have fancy clothes? What I'm saying in that their day to day stuff will have simple patterns and designs. Because they don't have the technology to have the really elaborate stuff. They have a streamline, simplistic and elegant style. Look at Roman togas and such. Those were simple patterns that can look every beautiful.

They can still have rich colors and beautiful fabrics, but the over all look is going to be simple and elegant.

SotE right now is so black and white. I want to see more gray areas in it. That the "good" nations aren't perfect and the "bad" nations aren't evil bastards. No one is perfect and I want to see that reflected in more than petty jealousy over clothes

[Anonymous]

Well....don't forget that they were the only nation that has had TWO wars xD And it wasn't that long ago in game either hahahaha, Fenway was LKC during the second and a knight during the first.

So they have a dark history in the past...they almost lost the war, they had to do a lot of revamping in security and all that jazz too, but because it has been years and the dread army doesn't really exist anymore.....settle into a false sense of security.

And also...imagine this: Serendipity, using magic for ridiculous things. Draining their resources on the mundane, spending time making dresses rather than training mage fighters in households to help protect the country. That's a big "uh-oh" and then, taking it a step further, so reliant on magic, what happens if the mordecai show up?

Bam. Trouble!

That's more of a plot thing than anything else, but still makes them weak in that sense. Being too reliant is baaad

So...it's only conflict is it being a victim?